Professor Ge Jianxiong of Fudan University: the problem is not the schools _ for social education | Ge Jianxiong | | news
Interview with Fudan University Professor Ge Jianxiong
Problem is not the schools, social
He requested in the excellent proposals of the CPPCC last year, the "national minimum standard compulsory education, let the nation know, fall short of accountability. ”
Reporter He Li Dan, Shanghai
Being a social trend of humanities scholars, Ge Jianxiong frequently not only reviews current events, its footprint across the seven continents, including Antarctica.
The Institute of Chinese historical geography, Fudan University Professor on business, "family is used to", and "traveling", and no cell phones. He is currently with 7 doctoral, even in a foreign country, also by email direct their papers, "I speak up or talk to them. Meet too, if needed. ”
On December 4, 2013 and December 18, Professor Ge Jianxiong, received 21st century business Herald reporter, spoke freely about his views on education reform at all levels after the third plenary. Scholars from the 68-year old Tan Qixiang, he remains the same, the speed quickly, good for about 1.5 hours of interview subjects, with precise control.
Known as "Scott's artillery", he secretly and good governance, but the statement while acting as a Standing Committee of the National Committee of the CPPCC are sometimes not ruthless, while in early summer 2013 he resigned the Presidency of 6 years of Fudan University Librarian.
"The non-compulsory education without having to cancel key school"
Of the 21st century: what do you think of this year's plenary session Communique for the provisions of the education reform? For example, "integrated rural-urban balanced allocation of compulsory education resources", "no school classes" these keyword phrases.
Ge Jianxiong: as I understand this paragraph mainly refers to the compulsory education stage; non-compulsory stages of education should be differentiated, which is formed on the objective, and cannot be changed. With regard to compulsory education, I formal proposals to the Ministry of education, and was awarded the excellent proposals of the CPPCC last year. I was the request made was that national compulsory education minimum standard let the nation know, fall short of accountability, this standard throughout the show a little difference in the first place, but in the end were the same throughout the country, our parents are most concerned about, "do not lose at the starting line" problem can be solved. Compulsory education is balanced, which is a fundamental right of citizens, whether rural/urban area, national, or behind or developed areas, every child should have fair access to compulsory education, in line with justice.
Rather than compulsory education could not be fair and equitable. Difference depends on the community to solve all over; China cannot manage levels of universities throughout the country, but entirely possible wild place in the country have reached the national standard compulsory basic education schools. This time, I wrote this article in the Gazette, I am happy, do to attention.
"Without focusing on classes in schools" focus on compulsory education, can do so. To the University or non-compulsory stages of education, there were differences and that those schools don't have everybody go.
Of the 21st century: China doesn't lack "Super schools" like almost concentrated with neighboring Hebei province Hebei hengshui high school students.
Ge Jianxiong: to clarify concepts, hengshui high school is compulsory education at school, it is mainly high school. I think non-compulsory education stage currently achieved are impossible, take a step back and say, national university enrolment in the future, but also an integer between 30%, means to reduce the cut-throat competition is not banning them or forbid it. If this community to give each of our youth right way out, so that society will naturally have diverged.
United States if all the children have to go to an Ivy League school? Will not. Some children receive after completing compulsory education, ready to work, only a few consider themselves to be very excellent, families can afford or qualify for hefty scholarships, will choose an Ivy League school, but some think studying in the state very well, the basic tuition.
From this perspective, the real pressure comes not from the school of educational reform in China, but from the community. Why is competition from the "junior high", from high school to university entrance examination, and even kindergartens have competition? Was rooted in how the State guaranteed majority, young people will have decent work, decent life, have equal social status. We are now, no matter what the family, trying to send their children to College, and in fact, not everyone needs to go.
The problem is not "a test determines your life"
Of the 21st century: the plenary session Communique referred to "promote the reform of enrollment system of examinations", proposing "student exam multiple times to select", "fundamentally solve the drawbacks of exams for life", do you support it?
Ge Jianxiong: the essential question is not "a test determines your life", but you don't solve many social problems, admissions reforms were useless. If we go to College is a healthy choice, now the basic system is appropriate, with a little adjustment to adapt.
Of the 21st century: are you saying that the college entrance examination system is still present the best choice?
Ge Jianxiong: that's right. Now all eyes are on exams, recruiting methods, this absurd! Frankly, in this proposal, I think it is not necessary, there is no cut to the core. If we really do so in the future-category triage level, after the end of compulsory education, some choose to work, and some go on to University, College, healthily, we choose, examinations, registration is a simple, purposeful means. The so-called "exams for life" who gives you "a test determines your life"? You don't get a place at University, are set for life? The reference itself has a ridiculous premise, to never do something as a goal.
Exams more than once, OK? Games I can ask the second? Cannot.
Now is a complex system of coordination; instead of saying the admissions system itself a big problem right now. Now enrolling system basic adaptation, there is nothing to change, future directions for change should be independently running schools, allow individual schools to adopt different methods, give the school autonomy, except take care of objects of the special need to protect the State, everything else should be let go.
To grasp the major aspects of reform, state the basic right. If the national unified test should be allowed to have a certain added that the countries in order to protect the Western region the right to education, appropriate adjustments. There is one point I want to make it clear that national compulsory education must be guaranteed, but the State has no responsibility to protect the University. University, since it is not compulsory, you have a condition, like some States could guarantee University is free, we don't bring up something that goes beyond the present society might require.
Off-site entrance standards, procedures
Of the 21st century: offsite hater events had taken place in the field of college entrance examination, she argue that let go of off-site education equity, social justice, and some fierce opponents of Shanghai origin referred to her as "locusts", what do you think?
Ge Jianxiong: Shanghai is the State guarantees compulsory education funding Shanghai non-compulsory education requirements from two sides: one central Government, but most are local finance, local financial fair, of course, we must first ensure that taxpayer, and we develop the standards, such as tax, residence time, (some of them are) not to this extent.
Offsite first consideration is only part of the entrance examination for college entrance examination in hardship, now called someone off-site entrance examination is not subject to any restrictions, all are free to apply for, how is this done? Countries never said to do this step. Someone deliberately stir up discontent among different problems magnify, the practice inappropriate. Education fairness is the basis of social justice in society did not do fair circumstances, socio-urban and rural, regional differences in severe cases, education cannot be entirely fair.
Of the 21st century: local taxpayers would include outsiders, for instance, he worked in Shanghai, Shanghai, his personal income tax, social security is likely to, even if he is a peasant, his actual consumption in Shanghai, wage taxes.
Ge Jianxiong: now take the points system, when the points accumulated to a certain extent, he enjoyed equally. The Central speech is understood now, metropolitan cities like Shanghai to control, not all of them open, open process.
Taxpayers, of course, foreign taxpayers, now more than one-third of Shanghai was from out of town, open a process, is now promoting the system of residence permits, he qualified, integral with the locals. National social security to education, all citizens enjoy guaranteed by the Central Government; local distinction, and reform and opening up is to arouse local enthusiasm. To move into main areas have access, unconditional only educational resource-rich, to move out of the area, or if you got the money all around, it is also unjust.
Of the 21st century: you argue that this stage unconditionally open offsite unjust?
Ge Jianxiong: I told MoE about proposals: first, fully funded by the Central School, whatever remote not offsite, the whole country should open enrollment, but paid for by local government schools, local Government certainly has the right to develop according to its requirements (admission scheme), it is possible, taken care of in the field. Central reform is a very important idea is to divide the central powers, such as we now have state tax, local tax, so as to arouse local enthusiasm.
I also with Ministry of education, in the case of financial improvement of the State right now, should be removed to build, Shanghai running could take that money to meet its local demand. Such as the United States some States, children of this State to enjoy free, not out of State, it has provided, you are not taxpayers in this State, your child can read, but tuition must be paid, the State's child free of charge or for a nominal point. Equality on the assumption that rights and duties are relative.
Now that's wrong, that is, if not on the household register, social protection provided he does not enjoy even the Central Government, it should not be. But the Shanghai, Shanghai's compulsory education stage, all outsiders in every school, and local to enjoy the same treatment, including the zhanhaite, she has no effect in Shanghai say junior high school, but in high school, I am sorry, is not guaranteed by the Central Government, this is quite right. I criticized the State Council asked local off-site college entrance examination approaches, off-site entrance policy should be formulated by the central authorities to coordinate.
(Edit: SN095)
December 29, 2013 21st century business Herald
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复旦大学教授葛剑雄：问题不在学校在社会|教育|葛剑雄|问题_新闻资讯
专访复旦大学教授葛剑雄
问题不在学校，在社会
他在去年全国政协优秀提案中提出要求，“国家公布义务制教育的最低标准，让全国人民都知道，达不到的要问责。”
本报记者 贺莉丹 上海报道
作为一名关注社会动向的人文学者，葛剑雄不仅频频点评时事，其足迹更遍及包括南极在内的七大洲。
这位复旦大学中国历史地理研究所教授常出差，“家人都习惯了”，且以“云游”之态，不用手机。目前他带了7个博士生，即便身在异国，也通过电邮指导他们的论文，“我提意见或找他们谈方向。需要的话也见面。”
2013年12月4日和12月18日，葛剑雄教授接受了21世纪经济报道记者专访，畅谈他对于三中全会之后各层次教育改革的观点。这位68岁的学者师从谭其骧，他一如往常，语速飞快，对约好的一个半小时采访议题，有着精准的把控。
被称为“葛大炮”的他，私底下为人和善，但作为全国政协常委时的发言有时又不留情面，而在2013年夏初他主动请辞担任了6年多的复旦大学图书馆馆长。
“非义务教育无需取消重点学校”
《21世纪》：你怎么看本届三中全会公报对于教育改革的规定？比如“统筹城乡义务教育资源均衡配置”、“不设重点学校重点班”这些关键字句。
葛剑雄：这一段我的理解主要指义务制教育阶段；非义务制教育阶段还是应该有差别，这是客观上形成的，没法改变。关于义务制教育，我也向教育部正式提案，去年被评为全国政协优秀提案。我当时提的要求是，国家公布义务制教育的最低标准，让全国人民都知道，达不到的要问责，这个标准一开始各地可以有点差别，但最后应该全国都一样，这样我们家长最关心的“不要输在起跑线上”的问题就基本可以解决。义务制教育均衡化，这是公民基本权利，不管城乡、民族，还是落后或发达地区，每个孩子都应该公正享受到义务制教育，体现教育公正。
而非义务制教育一下子不可能做到公正、公平的。各地的差异要靠社会来解决；中国不可能在全国各地办成一样水平的大学，但完全可能在全国各地哪怕荒野之地办出达到国家基本标准的义务制教育学校。这次我看到公报里写了这条，我很高兴，觉得中央的确重视。
“不设重点学校重点班”主要针对义务制教育，完全可以做到。至于到大学或非义务制教育阶段，本来有差异，而且这些学校没必要每个人都进。
《21世纪》：中国不缺“超级中学”，像河北衡水中学几乎集中了河北与临近省的尖子。
葛剑雄：要讲清楚概念，衡水中学是非义务制教育阶段学校，它主要是高中。我觉得非义务制教育阶段目前要全部做到还不可能，退一步讲，国家今后大学毛入学率也不过30%到40%之间，减少这种恶性竞争的办法不在于取缔这些学校或不许它办。如果这个社会给予我们每个青年适当的出路，这样社会就自然分流了。
美国是不是所有孩子都要进常青藤大学？不会。有部分孩子在接受完义务制教育后就准备工作了，只有少数认为自己很优秀，家庭又有负担能力或申请到高额奖学金的，才会选择常青藤大学，而有的觉得就在州里念书很好，基本免学费。
从这个角度来说，真正的中国教育改革的巨大压力不是来自学校，而是来自社会。为什么现在竞争从“小升初”到中考、从高中到大学，甚至是幼儿园就有竞争？根子在国家怎样保证大多数人、每个青年将来都有体面的工作、有尊严的生活、有平等的社会地位。我们现在是不管什么家庭，都一味地要把孩子送进大学，实际上不是所有人都需要上大学。
问题不在“一考定终身”
《21世纪》：三中全会公报提到“推进考试招生制度改革”，提出“学生考试多次选择”，“从根本上解决一考定终身的弊端”，你赞成么？
葛剑雄：根本问题不在“一考定终身”，而在于很多社会问题你不解决，招生再改革都没有用。如果大家进大学是一个良性选择，现在这个基本制度是合适的，只要稍微调节就适应了。
《21世纪》：你是说高考制度依然是当下最好的选择？
葛剑雄：对。现在大家眼光都盯在考试、招生方法上，这荒唐！坦率地说，对这个提法我觉得既没必要，也没抓住要害。如果我们今后真做到一级级分流，在义务制教育结束后，有的选择工作、有的继续上大学，上大学时大家又良性地选择，这样考试、招生会是一个简单、目的明确的手段。所谓“一考定终身”，谁给你“一考定终身”？你考不上大学，难道终身就定了？这个提法本身有个很荒唐的前提，要把永远做不到的事作为目标。
多次考试就好吗？奥运比赛我能不能要求第二次？不能。
现在是一个复杂的系统在协调中；而不是说现在这个招生制度本身有什么大问题。现在的招生制度基本适应，没什么好大改，今后改的方向应该是学校自主办学，容许各个学校采取不同方法，给学校一定自主权，除国家特殊需要保障的照顾对象外，其他都应该放开。
改革要抓住主要方面，国家原来的方法基本合适。如果全国采取统一试卷，应该容许各地有一定补充，国家为了保障老少边穷地区受教育权利，适当进行调整。有一点我要讲清楚，义务制教育国家必须保障，但国家没有责任要保障到大学。大学既然不是义务制，你有条件，像有些国家可以保障，大学也免费，我们不要提出一些超越现在社会可能的要求。
异地高考有标准，有过程
《21世纪》：异地高考领域曾发生占海特事件，她认为放开异地高考是教育公平、社会公正，而一些持沪籍的激烈反对者称她为“蝗虫”，你怎么看？
葛剑雄：上海义务制教育经费是国家保证的；上海非义务制教育经费来自两方面：一部分是中央财政，但大多数是地方财政，地方财政的公正当然首先要保证纳税人，而且我们制定了准入标准，比如纳税、居住满多少时间，(他们中的一些人)没到这个程度。
异地高考最早的考虑只是解决一部分高考困难户，现在有人提出所谓异地高考就是不受任何限制、全部可自由报考，这怎么做得到？国家从没说要做到这步。有人故意把一些问题扩大化挑起地域之间的不满，这种做法不妥当。教育公平的基础是社会公平，在社会没做到公平的情况下，在社会城乡、地区差别严重的情况下，教育不可能做到完全公平。
《21世纪》：地方财政纳税人也包括外来人员，比如他在上海工作，他的个税、社保很可能交给上海，哪怕他是农民工，他在上海实际消费，工资也有缴税。
葛剑雄：现在上海采取积分制，当积分积到一定程度时他同等享受。中央现在讲话也是明白的，特大城市像上海这样的城市要控制，不是全部开放的，开放有个过程。
纳税人当然包括外来纳税人，现在上海人口里三分之一以上都是外地来的，开放这有个过程，现在推广居住证制度，他够条件了、积分满了都跟本地人一样。国家的社会保障跟教育，由中央财政保障的应该所有国民都享受；地方财政当然有区别，改革开放就是要调动地方积极性。以迁入为主的地区都有准入条件，无条件的只有教育资源富裕、以迁出为主的地区，否则只要有钱大家都来，这也不公正。
《21世纪》：你认为现阶段无条件开放异地高考也是不公正？
葛剑雄：我跟教育部提过提案：第一，完全由中央拨款的学校，无所谓异地不异地，全国都应该放开招生；但由地方政府出钱的学校，地方政府当然有权根据它的要求制定(招生计划)，它对外地只是可能情况下的照顾。中央改革一个很重要的思路是划分中央跟地方的实权，比如我们现在有国税、地方税，这样才能调动地方积极性。
我也跟教育部提出，在现在国家财政改善的情况下，应该取消地方共建，上海完全可以拿这个钱办学满足自己的本地需求。譬如美国有些州，本州孩子享受免费，外州就不行，它有规定，你不是这个州的纳税人，你的孩子可以念书，但学费必须交，本州的孩子免费或象征性交点。平等的前提是权利和义务是相对的。
现在有一点不对，就是如果没有户籍，连中央政府提供的社会保障他也不享受，这不应该。但这个上海做到了，上海的义务制教育阶段，所有外来人统统可以进学校，并且跟本地享受一样的待遇，包括占海特，她在上海念初中没有影响，但到了高中，对不起，就不是中央保障的了，这很对。我曾批评国务院要求各地制定异地高考办法，异地高考政策应该由中央来协调制定。
（编辑：SN095）
2013年12月29日02:47
21世纪经济报道
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